Confirmation of capacitance with pure store bought distilled
25 thoughts on “#62 Resonant Water Fuel Cell – 03”
maxriscsays:
When you change scale you are putting more power/ less power into the capacitor. You can’t really measure a capacitor in ohms.
audiegatessays:
bluebeaverbeer calls it, “conditioning the cell” i.e. getting the molecules in the cell flowing the same direction.. do you agree?
BigFireDavesays:
Who cares what you call it! Milk from a cow taste just as good if you call it a beauvine (SP?).
BigFireDavesays:
Z, I am only a tech license at this time, but i have seen a meter respond the way yours did. With a big slow capacitor it seems to me that after you reached max and switched to a higher scale the switch actually gave the cell a voltage, then dropped to zero, then applied voltage again. The rise and then drop and then started raiseing again was a voltage “bounce” by the capacitor that comes with a “pulse” situation. Pulsing a rectified voltage to a capacitor causes “surges”. Maybe that registered
harveyeastonsays:
i am looking for another tapp’d inductor, (monster one, about 2 henry), and targeting a 1 cycle every 2 seconds center frequency. At the current rate of 2hz, it seems that much energy is being used to hold bubbles in place against the plates…
harveyeastonsays:
on further research, i find that waters dialectric constant to vary with tempature; as high as 88 at near freezing, and as low as 30 near boiling.
harveyeastonsays:
Equation:
C= K*Eo*A/D, where Eo= 8.854×10-12
where:
K is the dielectric constant of the material,
A is the overlapping surface area of the plates,
d is the distance between the plates, and
C is capacitance
in the data sheet, it lists waters dialectric constant as 40. Should be fairly easy to figure out. (My unit is operateing at approx 2 cycles a second, very slow oscilltion.
cribcat1says:
With tap water and baking soda I can light an LED for five minutes after a “charge”. It acts like a high resistance battery or a cap. I don’t know if it’s the dissimilar metals in an electrolyte or what.
astrolplainsays:
I am old school, HAM radio etc.
Dont know how to contact with an idea, so here it is. Use the capacitive reactence of the cell as part of the circuit. Let that determine the frequency of EMF to dislodge the atoms.?
Steve
gittarpikksays:
Maybe some airborn emf interacting with the resonance of the coil
RyuDarraghsays:
Electronic voltmeters usually use 2.00V for their resistance measurement system. Some use 3.00V or 4.00V. You have a decent capacitor there. An “electrolyte” does not mean a good conductor. It means a substance that has many free ions, but *high* DC resistance (leakage). Distilled water *is* an electrolyte with dipole molecules. The difference is that the *series* resistance of the cell will be very high. A 1F capacitor with milliohms would be dangerous. 1F with 10K resistance would be.. weak.
GBS1043says:
OH,OH, stop n shop?? You must be in PARMA!
And that Chineese Tektronix VOM !! WOW
Gruntol5says:
While measuring the resistance of your cell you are applying a voltage (probably 1.5v), of course. 1.5v is just capable of dissociating water to H2 & O2. The gases will coat the surface of your electrodes thus increasing the resistance of your cell, until the surface is saturated. The gases are not visible to the eye.
Gruntol5says:
We had a brand new A/C system installed last year. Even so the condensate always has a smell – would never drink it! You have to bear in mind that the condensate will include some organic volatiles from the human body, plasticizer vapor, cooking smells, etc, plus dissolved metal from copper cooling coils. Even trace amounts will increase the conductivity of the “distillate.” Once exposed to the atmosphere carbon dioxide will be dissolved, which ionizes (very weakly) to give H+ & CO3 2- ions.
valveman12says:
Ok you are using words like resonance, negative resistance incorrectly. The reasone the cell keeps climbing in resistance is that it is essentially a capacitor. It will climb because the cell is still charging from the voltage of your ohm meter. Resonance ocurs when reactances cancel each other out and all you are left with is a purely resistive component.
smokyatgroupssays:
Zero the meter tries to push a constant current (but known)thru the resistor under test. It then measures the voltage & displays the result in ohms. If the current charged into a cell initially exceeds the meters internal current source it will push current back thru the meter giving a negative value. As the cell discharges the internal meter current will rise to a positive value again.
rpierinisays:
Definitely. I’m trying to find a good custom manufacturer for those as well as for the ferrite inductors listed in D14.
ZeroFossilFuelsays:
I could not possibly agree more. In fact check the next vid I’m about to upload. There will be no more discussion of a zero-cell either. It will be classified as a vertical series plate brick cell or vertical cell for short.
Crob made a perfectly valid point. The need for standardized and easily recognized nomenclature. I am completely on board with that so long as it’s generic and not self promoting.
m3sca1says:
i named it after him out of credit for the idea.nothin more.credit given where credit is due.
so now we have electrolytic cell,avicron cell,Shigeta Hasebes patented spiral DC electrolyser,and crob cell.
i see his point.
standard names help us go forward.
lets call a spade a spade,and from this point on i will call it a spiral plate cell-for that is the best description.
that way anyone looking for info on the design will find it easily.
that makes sense to me.
flame out
crob227says:
Thats twice you insulted me, and i never named
the cell, it was an open sorce, and was named, the end, i thought to stop confusion, the name would stick, but if tyou dont care i dont care. dont bother writing back im not interested in anything else you have to say.
(safe gaurd the feather, hop down from your pedistal it imaginary too) that hurts dude. i really looked up to you.
ZeroFossilFuelsays:
The very fact that you are so protective, taking offense to anyone calling anything even remotely resembling your own work anything other than what you’ve already named it, specifically incorporating the name crob, is all the evidence we need that you are trying to safeguard the feather that only you imagine you have in your cap from blowing away.
I wish you luck in your experiments. I really do. But hop down from your pedestal. That too is imaginary.
crob227says:
well thats a big slap in the face i got some different stuff going on any ways, so call it what you want, i got more ideas you can rename if you like, but its not helping 3.50 a gallon, if everyone is confused.
ZeroFossilFuelsays:
Personally, I think it should be referred to as the electrolytic cell. In fact, that is what I’m going to call it going forward.
ZeroFossilFuelsays:
I have the patent already. It intrigues me, to say the least. The polarity of the permanent magnets is not exactly clear, though.
rpierinisays:
According to D6.pdf even the Meyer model was difficult to tune and maintain. And I agree with syncromon, this is quite similar to Hasebe’s cell- ZFF, why don’t you study his work, add the magnets, tune with a PWM, and see what you get?
When you change scale you are putting more power/ less power into the capacitor. You can’t really measure a capacitor in ohms.
bluebeaverbeer calls it, “conditioning the cell” i.e. getting the molecules in the cell flowing the same direction.. do you agree?
Who cares what you call it! Milk from a cow taste just as good if you call it a beauvine (SP?).
Z, I am only a tech license at this time, but i have seen a meter respond the way yours did. With a big slow capacitor it seems to me that after you reached max and switched to a higher scale the switch actually gave the cell a voltage, then dropped to zero, then applied voltage again. The rise and then drop and then started raiseing again was a voltage “bounce” by the capacitor that comes with a “pulse” situation. Pulsing a rectified voltage to a capacitor causes “surges”. Maybe that registered
i am looking for another tapp’d inductor, (monster one, about 2 henry), and targeting a 1 cycle every 2 seconds center frequency. At the current rate of 2hz, it seems that much energy is being used to hold bubbles in place against the plates…
on further research, i find that waters dialectric constant to vary with tempature; as high as 88 at near freezing, and as low as 30 near boiling.
Equation:
C= K*Eo*A/D, where Eo= 8.854×10-12
where:
K is the dielectric constant of the material,
A is the overlapping surface area of the plates,
d is the distance between the plates, and
C is capacitance
in the data sheet, it lists waters dialectric constant as 40. Should be fairly easy to figure out. (My unit is operateing at approx 2 cycles a second, very slow oscilltion.
With tap water and baking soda I can light an LED for five minutes after a “charge”. It acts like a high resistance battery or a cap. I don’t know if it’s the dissimilar metals in an electrolyte or what.
I am old school, HAM radio etc.
Dont know how to contact with an idea, so here it is. Use the capacitive reactence of the cell as part of the circuit. Let that determine the frequency of EMF to dislodge the atoms.?
Steve
Maybe some airborn emf interacting with the resonance of the coil
Electronic voltmeters usually use 2.00V for their resistance measurement system. Some use 3.00V or 4.00V. You have a decent capacitor there. An “electrolyte” does not mean a good conductor. It means a substance that has many free ions, but *high* DC resistance (leakage). Distilled water *is* an electrolyte with dipole molecules. The difference is that the *series* resistance of the cell will be very high. A 1F capacitor with milliohms would be dangerous. 1F with 10K resistance would be.. weak.
OH,OH, stop n shop?? You must be in PARMA!
And that Chineese Tektronix VOM !! WOW
While measuring the resistance of your cell you are applying a voltage (probably 1.5v), of course. 1.5v is just capable of dissociating water to H2 & O2. The gases will coat the surface of your electrodes thus increasing the resistance of your cell, until the surface is saturated. The gases are not visible to the eye.
We had a brand new A/C system installed last year. Even so the condensate always has a smell – would never drink it! You have to bear in mind that the condensate will include some organic volatiles from the human body, plasticizer vapor, cooking smells, etc, plus dissolved metal from copper cooling coils. Even trace amounts will increase the conductivity of the “distillate.” Once exposed to the atmosphere carbon dioxide will be dissolved, which ionizes (very weakly) to give H+ & CO3 2- ions.
Ok you are using words like resonance, negative resistance incorrectly. The reasone the cell keeps climbing in resistance is that it is essentially a capacitor. It will climb because the cell is still charging from the voltage of your ohm meter. Resonance ocurs when reactances cancel each other out and all you are left with is a purely resistive component.
Zero the meter tries to push a constant current (but known)thru the resistor under test. It then measures the voltage & displays the result in ohms. If the current charged into a cell initially exceeds the meters internal current source it will push current back thru the meter giving a negative value. As the cell discharges the internal meter current will rise to a positive value again.
Definitely. I’m trying to find a good custom manufacturer for those as well as for the ferrite inductors listed in D14.
I could not possibly agree more. In fact check the next vid I’m about to upload. There will be no more discussion of a zero-cell either. It will be classified as a vertical series plate brick cell or vertical cell for short.
Crob made a perfectly valid point. The need for standardized and easily recognized nomenclature. I am completely on board with that so long as it’s generic and not self promoting.
i named it after him out of credit for the idea.nothin more.credit given where credit is due.
so now we have electrolytic cell,avicron cell,Shigeta Hasebes patented spiral DC electrolyser,and crob cell.
i see his point.
standard names help us go forward.
lets call a spade a spade,and from this point on i will call it a spiral plate cell-for that is the best description.
that way anyone looking for info on the design will find it easily.
that makes sense to me.
flame out
Thats twice you insulted me, and i never named
the cell, it was an open sorce, and was named, the end, i thought to stop confusion, the name would stick, but if tyou dont care i dont care. dont bother writing back im not interested in anything else you have to say.
(safe gaurd the feather, hop down from your pedistal it imaginary too) that hurts dude. i really looked up to you.
The very fact that you are so protective, taking offense to anyone calling anything even remotely resembling your own work anything other than what you’ve already named it, specifically incorporating the name crob, is all the evidence we need that you are trying to safeguard the feather that only you imagine you have in your cap from blowing away.
I wish you luck in your experiments. I really do. But hop down from your pedestal. That too is imaginary.
well thats a big slap in the face i got some different stuff going on any ways, so call it what you want, i got more ideas you can rename if you like, but its not helping 3.50 a gallon, if everyone is confused.
Personally, I think it should be referred to as the electrolytic cell. In fact, that is what I’m going to call it going forward.
I have the patent already. It intrigues me, to say the least. The polarity of the permanent magnets is not exactly clear, though.
According to D6.pdf even the Meyer model was difficult to tune and maintain. And I agree with syncromon, this is quite similar to Hasebe’s cell- ZFF, why don’t you study his work, add the magnets, tune with a PWM, and see what you get?